(14-10-2010, 10:07 AM)jingiby Wrote:

(14-10-2010, 09:44 AM)Зора Wrote: Е така магично ја најдоја тие, ко ја зазедоја Битола

Ја знам, в комши ми е.100 метра подолу од мене.

(14-10-2010, 10:12 AM)Зора Wrote: Ја знам, в комши ми е.100 метра подолу од мене.

Кой ти е комшия? Йован ли?

(14-10-2010, 06:21 AM)Kasnakovski Wrote: На Самуиловиот натпис е со О.

И тука ти обясняват защо:

Въпрос 2: Самуил или Самоил?
Отговор: Самуил.

В повечето новобългарски (а и новогръцки) диалекти в неударена позиция гласните У и О не се различават. Поради това, както и да се напише, Самуил или Самоил, произнася се по един и същ начин: въпросната гласна е безударна и е някъде между У и О.

Обаче, името е с у и на гръцки, и на латински, и на западните езици, както и в старите писания. Затова се предпочита Самуил.

Най-големият кахър на FYROMляните е как да се отличават и как да ги отличават от нас, българите. Затова те са предпочели варианта Самоил. Ако у нас беше приет този вариант, те биха избрали варианта Самуил. Някой съмнява ли се в това?

Среща се наистина в стари текстове СΑΜΟΗΛЪ вместо СΑΜΟΥΗΛЪ. Поне две причини има за това.

Първо, произношение, при което неударените гласни У и О не се различават, би могло да има и по времето на цар Самуил, както в някои български, така и в някои гръцки диалекти. Ако е така, пишещият можело да не знае как да го напише (нямал "правописен речник" под ръка).

Второ, някога често са пропускали букви, особено когато и без пропуснатите букви думата се разпознава лесно. А пък гласният звук У се е писал с диграф (две букви) ΟΥ както на гръцки, така и на старо-български. Може втората буква Υ в диграфа ΟΥ да е била понякога пропускана.

Среща се и произношение с О у източните славяни (малоруси, великоруси) при тамошния народен вариант на това име: Самóйло. Подобни варианти са Михайло, Гаврило, и др. Няма данни обаче такива имена да са се използвали по Нашенско. Името Ивайло е съвременно недоразумение.

(14-10-2010, 10:27 AM)jingiby Wrote:

(14-10-2010, 10:12 AM)Зора Wrote: Ја знам, в комши ми е.100 метра подолу од мене.

Кой ти е комшия? Йован ли?

Не Јон, Битолскиот музеј

Иван Владислав обявява себе си за българин по рождение.

The legend of Basil the Bulgar-slayer By Paul Stephenson

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z0PmrXK...on&f=false

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=1...q=&gs_rfai=

(14-10-2010, 07:51 PM)veritas Wrote: Иван Владислав обявява себе си за българин по рождение.

The legend of Basil the Bulgar-slayer By Paul Stephenson

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z0PmrXK...on&f=false

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=1...q=&gs_rfai=

A,да не има некој пишан документ каде и Исус Христос се декларира како бугарин?!

(14-10-2010, 12:16 PM)Вовата Wrote: Най-големият кахър на FYROMляните е как да се отличават и как да ги отличават от нас, българите. Затова те са предпочели варианта Самоил. Ако у нас беше приет този вариант, те биха избрали варианта Самуил. Някой съмнява ли се в това?

Затоа и јас сметам дека треба да се прави разлика помеѓи Татари и Бугари, нели компетентен Вова?

(14-10-2010, 08:09 PM)demmian Wrote: A,да не има некој пишан документ каде и Исус Христос се декларира како бугарин?!

За Исус Христос не знам, знам само, че Василий II се декларилал за Македонец.
Много ще се учудя, ако и Самуил също.

(14-10-2010, 06:14 PM)Зора Wrote:

(14-10-2010, 10:27 AM)jingiby Wrote:

(14-10-2010, 10:12 AM)Зора Wrote: Ја знам, в комши ми е.100 метра подолу од мене.

Кой ти е комшия? Йован ли?

Не Јон, Битолскиот музеј

Зора оти ти е комшия Битолскиот музей да те прешам си видел ли некой от големите македонските историчари да одат во овой музей? ...па да е прочетат що пише

(14-10-2010, 08:24 PM)Път Wrote:

(14-10-2010, 12:16 PM)Вовата Wrote: Най-големият кахър на FYROMляните е как да се отличават и как да ги отличават от нас, българите. Затова те са предпочели варианта Самоил. Ако у нас беше приет този вариант, те биха избрали варианта Самуил. Някой съмнява ли се в това?

Затоа и јас сметам дека треба да се прави разлика помеѓи Татари и Бугари, нели компетентен Вова?

Разбира се. Татарите са ВРАГОВЕ на старите Българи и са споменати за първи път като етноним през 12 век. Ти направи аритметиката. Не е потребна голема компетенция.

П.С. Горният цитат за Самоил/Самуил не е писан от мене. Просто го пастирах тука. Това за фиромляните не го споделям, мисля, че е станало ясно.

ОК, тогаш, лошо сум разбрал.

(14-10-2010, 08:43 PM)ivan mihajlov Wrote:

(14-10-2010, 06:14 PM)Зора Wrote:

(14-10-2010, 10:27 AM)jingiby Wrote:

(14-10-2010, 10:12 AM)Зора Wrote: Ја знам, в комши ми е.100 метра подолу од мене.

Кой ти е комшия? Йован ли?

Не Јон, Битолскиот музеј

Зора оти ти е комшия Битолскиот музей да те прешам си видел ли некой от големите македонските историчари да одат во овой музей? ...па да е прочетат що пише

Во музејот работат фризери исто како и во бугарските музеии

(14-10-2010, 08:29 PM)Stefan Wrote: ?!

За Исус Христос не знам, знам само, че Василий II се декларилал за Македонец.

[/quote]

Па јас откога тврдам дека Василиј II e нашето македонско момче,а не цар Самоил.

Василиј II покрај Вулгароктон е познат и како Василиј II Македонец.

Така пологична изгледа македонската историја,зар не?

(14-10-2010, 10:10 PM)Път Wrote: ОК, тогаш, лошо сум разбрал.

Не бери кахър, случва се.

(14-10-2010, 11:47 PM)demmian Wrote: Па јас откога тврдам дека Василиј II e нашето македонско момче,а не цар Самоил.

Василиј II покрај Вулгароктон е познат и како Василиј II Македонец.

Така пологична изгледа македонската историја,зар не?

Зар, зар, а ти пи ли си апчетата оти ми изгледаш шизофренично?

(14-10-2010, 08:43 PM)ivan mihajlov Wrote: Зора оти ти е комшия Битолскиот музей да те прешам си видел ли некой от големите македонските историчари да одат во овой музей? ...па да е прочетат що пише

Имам видено само турски делегаци.Таму беше училиштето на Кемал Мустафа(средното воено).

Mongol invasion of Volga Bulgaria

In 1223, after defeating Russian and Kipchak armies at the Battle of Kalka, a Mongol army under the generals Subutai and Jebe was sent to subdue Volga Bulgaria. At that point in history Genghis Khan's troops were seen as invincible. However in 1223, the Bulgars defeated the Mongols. An army led by the Bulgar iltäbär (king) Ghabdulla Chelbir and including the armies of Mordvin princes or inäzors Puresh and Purgaz,ambushed and defeated Subotais's forces in 1223.One of the first defeats of the Mongols]]Details of this ambush along with subsequent Mongol victory at the Kama river have not survived.

The Mongols returned in 1229 under the command of Kukday and Bubede. This force defeated Bulgar frontier-guards at the Ural River and began the occupation of the upper Ural valley. A few years later, in 1232, the Mongol cavalry subjugated the southeastern part of the Bashkiria, and occupied southern portions of Volga Bulgaria itself.

Following the failure of the various Bulgar lords to unite in common defense, the Mongols struck again in 1236. Mongol forces led by Batu Khan besieged and seized Bilär, Bolghar, Suar, Cükätaw, and other cities and castles of Volga Bulgaria. The inhabitants were killed or sold into slavery. Volga Bulgaria became a part of the Ulus Jochi, later known as the Golden Horde. It was divided into different "duchies"; later each of them became a vassal of the Golden Horde and received some autonomy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_inva...a_Bulgaria

http://www.kosmix.com/topic/mongol_invas...a_bulgaria

The vast Mongol hordes of around 35,000 mounted archers, commanded by Batu Khan and Subutai, crossed the Volga River and invaded Volga Bulgaria in the autumn of 1236. It took them a year to extinguish the resistance of the Volga Bulgarians, the Kypchaks and the Alani.

In November 1237, Batu Khan sent his envoys to the court of Yuri II of Vladimir and demanded his submission. A month later, the hordes besieged Ryazan. After six days of bloody battle, the city was totally annihilated, never to be restored. Alarmed by the news, Yuri II sent his sons to detain the invaders, but they were soundly defeated. Having burnt down Kolomna and Moscow, the horde laid siege to Vladimir on February 4, 1238. Three days later, the capital of Vladimir-Suzdal was taken and burnt to the ground. The royal family perished in the fire, while the grand prince hastily retreated northward. Crossing the Volga, he mustered a new army, which was totally exterminated by the Mongols in the Battle of the Sit River on March 4.

Thereupon Batu Khan divided his army into smaller units, which ransacked fourteen cities of modern-day Russia: Rostov, Uglich, Yaroslavl, Kostroma, Kashin, Ksnyatin, Gorodets, Galich, Pereslavl-Zalessky, Yuriev-Polsky, Dmitrov, Volokolamsk, Tver, and Torzhok. The most difficult to take was the small town of Kozelsk, whose boy-prince Vasily, son of Titus, and inhabitants resisted the Mongols for seven weeks, killing 4,000. As the story goes, at the news of the Mongol approach, the whole town of Kitezh with all its inhabitants was submerged into a lake, where, as legend has it, it may be seen to this day. The only major cities to escape destruction were Novgorod and Pskov. Refugees from southern Rus' gravitated mostly to the northeast, in the forest region with poor soils between the northern Volga and Oka Rivers.


Sacking of Suzdal by Batu Khan in February, 1238: A miniature from the sixteenth century chronicle.In the summer of 1238, Batu Khan devastated the Crimea and pacified Mordovia. In the winter of 1239, he sacked Chernigov and Pereyaslav. After many days of siege, the horde stormed Kiev in December 1240. Despite the fierce resistance of Danylo of Halych, Batu Khan managed to take two of his principal cities, Halych and Volodymyr-Volynskyi. The Mongols then resolved to "reach the ultimate sea," where they could proceed no further, and invaded Hungary and Poland.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entr...ion_of_Rus

http://www.answers.com/topic/genghis-khan

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...4660063918#






http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Mongol_..._of_Russia

Mongol invasion of Europe

Against Thrace (1265)

During the reign of Berke there was also a raid against Thrace. In the winter of 1265 Nogai Khan led a Mongol raid of two tumens (20,000 soldiers) against the territories of Bulgaria and Byzantine Eastern Thrace. In the spring of 1265 he defeated the armies of Michael VIII Palaeologus. Instead of fighting, most of the Byzantines fled due to powerful Mongol army. After this Thrace was plundered by Nogai's army, and the Byzantine emperor made an alliance with the Golden Horde, giving his daughter Euphrosyne in marriage to Nogai. And also Michael had sent much if valuable fabrics to Golden Horde as tributary since then.

Against Bulgaria (1242, 1271, 1274, 1280 and 1285)

In the return after the premature end of the invasion of Europe, Mongols devastated Bulgaria. In 1271 Nogai Khan led a successful raid against the country, which was a vassal of Golden Horde until the early 14th century. Bulgaria was again raided by the Tatars in 1274, 1280 and 1285. However, Bulgarian tsar accepted suzerainty of Khan Tokhta (Toqta), Mongol control loosen since Nogai and Chaka's deaths.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entr..._of_Europe

http://www.answers.com/topic/batu-khan

Post: #122

Mongol invasion of Europe

Against Thrace (1265)

During the reign of Berke there was also a raid against Thrace. In the winter of 1265 Nogai Khan led a Mongol raid of two tumens (20,000 soldiers) against the territories of Bulgaria and Byzantine Eastern Thrace. In the spring of 1265 he defeated the armies of Michael VIII Palaeologus. Instead of fighting, most of the Byzantines fled due to powerful Mongol army. After this Thrace was plundered by Nogai's army, and the Byzantine emperor made an alliance with the Golden Horde, giving his daughter Euphrosyne in marriage to Nogai. And also Michael had sent much if valuable fabrics to Golden Horde as tributary since then.

Against Bulgaria (1242, 1271, 1274, 1280 and 1285)

In the return after the premature end of the invasion of Europe, Mongols devastated Bulgaria. In 1271 Nogai Khan led a successful raid against the country, which was a vassal of Golden Horde until the early 14th century. Bulgaria was again raided by the Tatars in 1274, 1280 and 1285. However, Bulgarian tsar accepted suzerainty of Khan Tokhta (Toqta), Mongol control loosen since Nogai and Chaka's deaths.

http://www.answers.com/topic/batu-khan

Mongol Empire

In the late 1230s, the Mongols under Batu Khan invaded Russia and Volga Bulgaria, reducing most of its principalities to vassalage, and pressed on into Eastern Europe. In 1241 the Mongols may have been ready to invade Western Europe as well, having defeated the last Polish-German and Hungarian armies at the Battle of Legnica and the Battle of Mohi. Batu Khan and Subutai were preparing to start with a winter campaign against Austria and Germany, and finish with Italy. However news of Ögedei's death spared Western Europe as Batu had to turn his attentions to the election of the next Great Khan. It is often speculated that this was one of the great turning points in history and that Europe may well have fallen to the Mongols had the invasion gone ahead.During the 1250s, Genghis's grandson Hulegu Khan, operating from the Mongol base in Persia, destroyed the Abbasid Caliphate in Baghdad and destroyed the cult of the Assassins, moving into Palestine towards Egypt. The Great Khan Möngke having died, however, he hastened to return for the election, and the force that remained in Palestine was destroyed by the Mamluks under Saif ad-Din Qutuz in 1261 at Ayn Jalut.
1241 and 1242 Mongols under Batu and Khadan invaded Bulgaria and forced them to pay annual tribute as vassal

* Second Bulgarian EmpireРинчен Хара Даван - Чингис хан гений] During the end of Mongol invasion of Europe, Balkan bulgars tried to destroy Mongol tumen. But Kadan's raids through Bulgaria on his retreat from Central Europe induced the young Kaliman I of Bulgaria to pay tribute and accept Mongol suzerainty. According to a letter of Bela IV to the pope written in 1254 indicates that at that time the Bulgarians were still paying tribute to the Mongols.

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/150890

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?...739AAuaEhO

Uprising of Ivaylo

The rebellion began in the spring or as late as the summer of 1277.[8] The rebels first marched against the Mongols who plundered the Bulgarian people due to the passiveness of the state.[7] The uprising began in the regions where the Mongol invasions were strongest. In the summer of that year, Ivaylo's forces defeated a Mongol unit looting the north-east and soon after that scored another victory against them. Having achieved a feat that had eluded the Bulgarian arms for decades, his popularity rose quickly. By the autumn of 1277, the Mongols were completely driven out of Bulgarian territory. Ivaylo was hailed as Emperor by the people and many areas came under his control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_of_Ivaylo

In 1277 in a popular uprising led by Ivailo broke out in north-eastern Bulgaria against the incapability of Emperor Constantine Tikh Asen to cope with the constant Mongol invasions which devastated the country for years. The Byzantine Emperor Michael VIII Palaiologos decided to make use of the instability in Bulgaria. He sent an army to impose his ally Ivan Asen III on the throne. Ivan Asen III gained control of the area between Vidin and Cherven. Ivailo was besieged by the Mongols at Drastar (Silistra) and the nobility in the capital Tarnovo accepted Ivan Asen III for Emperor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Devina

Golden Horde
In 1242, after retreating through Hungary (destroying Pest in the process), and subjugating Bulgaria,[10] Batu established his capital at Sarai, commanding the lower stretch of the Volga River, on the site of the Khazarian capital of Atil. Shortly before that, Batu and Orda's younger brother Shiban was given his own enormous ulus east of the Ural Mountains along the Ob and Irtysh Rivers.

http://www.answers.com/topic/golden-horde

http://tripatlas.com/George_I_of_Bulgaria

http://books.google.bg/books?id=2yLfmoae...&q&f=false

Macedonia (theme)

The Theme of Macedonia (Greek: θέμα Μακεδονίας) was a province of the Byzantine Empire, organised by Empress Irene in about 800, out of the Theme of Strymon. It had no relation with the historical or geographical region of Macedonia, but instead it was centered in Thrace, including the area from Adrianople (the theme's capital) and the Evros valley eastward along the Sea of Marmara. It did not include any part of ancient Macedon, which (insofar as the Byzantines controlled it) was in the Theme of Thessalonica. According to Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus, it included also Thessaly, regions of Trikalia and Larissa, and even the island of Skiathos; this view is, however, controversial. John I Tzimisces replaced this theme with a duchy of Adrianople, which included much of his Bulgarian conquests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(theme)

The early medieval Balkans: a critical survey from the sixth to the late ... By John Van Antwerp Fine

http://books.google.com/books?id=Y0NBxG9...ne&f=false

Byzantium and Its Army, 284-1081 By Warren Treadgold

http://books.google.com/books?id=xfV0LkM...ne&f=false

The Routledge companion to medieval warfare By Jim Bradbury

http://books.google.com/books?id=1C54r8G...ne&f=false

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=1...q=&gs_rfai=

(14-10-2010, 11:47 PM)demmian Wrote:

(14-10-2010, 08:29 PM)Stefan Wrote: ?!

За Исус Христос не знам, знам само, че Василий II се декларилал за Македонец.

Па јас откога тврдам дека Василиј II e нашето македонско момче,а не цар Самоил.

Василиј II покрај Вулгароктон е познат и како Василиј II Македонец.

Така пологична изгледа македонската историја,зар не?
[/quote]

Демянеей,само дето е македонец от тема Македония,дето е днешна Тракия и отгоре на всичко е арменец